Author Topic: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far  (Read 51339 times)

Dato

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #105 on: March 18, 2008, 12:24:56 AM »

Quote
Yes, and Yes. Just WTF is the point of your post Dato? Either make an intelligent point or STFU since this doesn't involve you in the slightest.

Yes you are absolutely correct and apologies for any perceived interference.

My contribution was intended to highlight transparency in due process, because if this continues to be the case with further issues, then this Bule Gila may cough up some readies.

Ciao for now.

Offline Reuben

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #106 on: March 18, 2008, 12:26:18 AM »
on topic please. going to sleep.

feeling absolutely disgusted atm.

if ppl think that RAN is so helpless as to be not able to obtain a quote without money then so be it.
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Offline Reuben

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #107 on: March 18, 2008, 01:02:13 AM »
Other option is I'm going to return everyone's money and you can feel free to donate to RAN personally if you wish to do it or spend it on yourself.

I want to wash my hands of this matter asap cause frankly I've lost all trust in RAN cause the more I think about it the more unbelievable it seems that getting a quote is so difficult or having me order it for her. This added to her roundabout way of replying to me and her evasiveness compounded the problem. In my opinion, a half day or less would not delay her order in any way. It seems the major justification is for her convenience and speed which is the only possible valid reason I can see.

However, if she agreed to my process of requiring an order page/receipt or quote, she would not have to wait for your consensus, and can proceed to get quotes and get it processed asap in half a day or less. Funny how getting a consensus from her donators is easier for her than getting me a quote.

This charity section will also be closed after the resolution of this matter as I don't see the point of this exercise anymore and regret it thoroughly for wasting everybody's and my time in organizing this thing.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 01:29:59 AM by Erun »
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Dato

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #108 on: March 18, 2008, 01:28:15 AM »
When credibility exceeds integrity, it is time to move on.

RAN

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #109 on: March 18, 2008, 01:39:54 AM »
Before anyone misjudges me further, at least listen to my side.

As I am now 47+ and considered pre-menopausal, my gynaecologist suggested I have a Bone Density scan done to see if my spine has deteriorated. I had this done on 14 January, 2008. I wasn't happy with the the picture even though I didn't know what it meant, and I was right. The result sheet said
WHO Classification: Osteopenia
Fracture Risk: Increased

My orthopaedic doctor, a surgeon, noted this and said that any surgery, if necessary, had to be postponed. Osteopenia means that my Bone Mineral Density (BMD) is lower than peak, but has not become osteoporosis yet. If left unchecked, my spine will deteriorate further, so I am now on Calcium supplements. The bone density has to be high, otherwise it cannot take the hammering of the titanium implant to the two lumbar vertebrae. Furthermore, he said that my present condition does not require surgery yet.
Let it be known that surgery was not even considered by me when the fund was set up. I will opt for it when and if necessary. I have heard of cases where surgery was performed three times due to dislocation of the implant post-sugery, followed by infection that needed healing. As I said in an earlier post, there are risks involved, and I am considering if it is worth more than where I stand now.

I have bought the lumbar support I needed. I have a cashier receipt but thought it insufficient so I rang the pharmacy for a proper receipt which will be posted to me. I have not received it yet. I include two pictures of the lumbar support. The pic of the male model is the one I bought. The pic of the female model shows how the back looks like. Unfortunately, the back pic is very small. The receipt will be scanned and upped when I receive it.

As to the mattress, back cushion, seat cushion, and feet wear, let met state that they are what I needed but had let go off because we couldn't afford it. Since surgery is not an immediate option, I thougth of at least having these equipment to help my daily life. My present mattress, being spring enveloped by sabut, tends to sag after a while and I struggle to turn it over. Buying a mattress in not easy. Even after testing I'm never sure if it supports me well after a period of use. The seat and back cushion is to support my back, hips, and legs when sitting for long periods. Even with a lumbar support does not mean I'm discomfort and pain free. I have to live with it. The special insole is from a shop at The Curve, called ScheinOrthopaedics, specialising in insoles for people with back or feet problems that can be helped by wearing the right footwear. The insoles provide the right support to each individual's feet by first scanning them. It has to be ordered from Germany. I don't know if the insole can be worn with other footwear or preferably, by ScheinOrthopaedics itself. I have just spent almost 6 hours walking around a shopping centre because there was no electricity in the area from 11 am to 6 pm. My back is very sore even though I wore my lumbar support, my legs felt like collapsing, and my ankles were painful. I was wearing normal Comfit sandals that didn't provide me cushioning or support.

On why I feel having cash in hand is better. It helps make travelling, perusing, and shopping for the products less tiring for my parents and myself. They travel with me so that in the event I cannot drive, my father takes over. And of course, mothers like to be included. Please remember that our daily lives are no longer as easy and taken for granted as normal people. My mother too, would prefer to be able to purchase these items immediately if they are suitable and available, unless and only unless, they are not in the shop and have to be ordered. And, as I've experienced before, when ordering a product most likely the store requires that I pay a downpayment. I certainly would prefer that they did not as we can't afford to.

I know the fund was set up without my knowing, paid in good faith by those concerned, as Crappy has pointed out. So far, only one person in a much earlier post, has said that whatever monies he/she donated should be released as trust has been placed upon me to do the right thing. Yes, the fund was set up for surgery. But conditions have changed. Surgery may not be possible and necessary. In the meantime, I am facing hurdles every single day to live as normal a life as possible. I struggle to perform most things, from getting into bed, turning, or getting out of bed. I use a daybed so that I can grab the bars on the side to pull me up or to turn. Simple things as brushing teeth, washing dishes, or picking things up from the floor is not without effort. I may need an extender later if picking things up is harder than it is now. I cannot walk for long, even sit. Worse if my left leg starts to throb or if there is a pull somewhere. Nothing is comfortable. I have good days where its not too bad, days when its tolerable, and bad when even lying down causes discomfort. None of you will know what its like until you develop my condition.
The fund was set up for me. Did you trust me then, to do the right thing? It looks like most do not. The fund was set up to help me. I need help, and if trust was there, why the need for documentation to prove that I am really going to use it for honourable reasons? Its just extending time and making me work more. If I go to ScheinOrthopaedics to find out more about the insole and find it suitable, I would like to be able to place an order straight away. And I won't be surprised if they require a downpayment. Now I am expected to return home, present quotation or whatever to you, then make another journey back to the store to place the order. I live in Kajang, not around the corner from Mutiara Damansara, Petaling Jaya.
I understand about doing what's right. I don't understand the brouhaha about releasing the fund to the person its meant for, hindering easier excess to use it for no other reason than connected with the problems, and addding more unncessary burden. I suggested to Reuben to present this case to those concerned. What I didn't expect was for most of you to misjudge me and misunderstand my position, before I had a chance to explain. I could have been rude and just asked for the money out front, but instead have always discussed my position with Reuben. But this is not what I expected and am surprised. All I ask is that you consider my side before making a hasty decision.

I want to make clear to everyone here that my father is retired and none of us are working. We are living on charity. There is no pension. We lost our house to the bank then to Danaharta. We live in a low cost house in Kajang, paid for by an uncle for a year and a half. After that, its up to us. I am unable to work fulltime, and am trying to see if I can do something part time. However, it might not be sufficient for all our needs, as it already is. I admit all this because I am tired and fed up by the judgements thrown my way.

1.32am:
Reuben, you surprise me, after the talks on the phone, at the shoutbox, to say you don't trust me and whatnots because I asked for easier access to the fund set up to help me. Never in my mind did I expect so many to say negative things that are simply untrue. Instead of focusing on yourselves, people, why don't you have some empathy and imagine being in my shoes.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 01:51:38 AM by RAN »

RAN

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #110 on: March 18, 2008, 01:53:21 AM »
Read my post above.

Silencers

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #111 on: March 18, 2008, 02:38:55 AM »
Ok, now that I have heard from both sides, I think I can make a fair judgment.

Rather than have you traveling around, and perusing things and thinking whether or not you should get something, why not get the shops' contact info. Minimize the amount of walking and spend more time deciding. If you ever decide to go out and look for stuff, be quick about and get contact info. At any convenient moment at home, call up the shop and talk about your needs. You only need to make your trip once.

Phone calls should be able to get you the necessary info. Total price, downpayment, etc. quite frankly, I don't think a downpayment for such items would go more than RM100, even for a RM15k car you only pay like what, RM1k? That's less than 1%. So, best thing you should do is make calls, find out whatever necessary costs and I believe Reuben would gladly release the money to you. If the downpayments costs maybe RM300, call Reuben up and he'll give you that much and by then, you should be able to get an invoice for all of us to see. Heck, I think all of us would be happy to chip in the delivery costs, just so you don't have to leave home to get it.

As far as getting hold of an invoice, I don't think a shop that stocks medical supplies would not have a fax machine or scanner. Ask them to email it to you and it should be of no issue at all. I completely agree and sympathise with you for not being able to travel as much as you please, but I'm sure there are ways to do things without having you leave home too many times.

The next time you decide to search for your items, get a hold of the shops'/suppliers' contact number and make your arrangements from home. Being medical suppliers, I'm sure they understand how patients would find it hard to leave home sometimes.

RAN

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #112 on: March 18, 2008, 03:06:23 AM »
Thank you for your suggestion. However, you have entirely missed the point that this is not grocery shopping. This is an individual's medical needs. Just as much as I cannot phone a doctor and ask for  a prescription for any drug I want, email it to me, then go to a pharmacy to buy, likewise phoning medical supply stores and getting quotations and deciding from home is not the way to buy such personal items.
I had to look at a number of lumbar supports, try on a few, and get advice from the pharmacist before deciding the best one for me. I have to lie on a mattress to see how it performs, sit on a seat cushion to test firmness or thickness, sit against a back support to check if it does what it claims to do, scan my feet and do whatever the shop asks me to, to be able to suggest the best insole. I take it you have not bought any of these items for yourself or present when someone else did.
Even wheelchairs come in different widths, heights, and purpose. There are numerous considerations to think about when buying something personal as a medical equipment to last a lifetime, or until changes occur.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 04:04:25 AM by RAN »

Offline Reuben

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #113 on: March 18, 2008, 09:00:38 AM »
I am a trustee of this fund and as such have duties to discharge which is to ensure that they are used for the purpose they were donated for which was for your surgery. This was slowly amended to include support aids (and I never said no here) granted not everyone agreed but most accepted, accepting that the fund was to help you with your medical ailments.

No one is doubting the severity of your condition nor making light of it so you need not reiterate that. In fact Rose the only time doubt crept in was when you kept on asking the money to be released to you straight away without what I felt were valid reasons. You did not mention the travelling nor anything of that sort and I would have gladly come up with my own cash if it incurred travelling expenses. Since none of these reasons were forthcoming and you evaded my simple questions, my alert was raised a lot further to the point of distrust especially when you went on about your condition which has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. The issue is not whether you have a condition or not, it's about how to release the money to you. Please do not play the emotional card.

What alerted me further was when you said 'I consider the money as mine' which really it isn't yet. You are the beneficiary of it for a specific purpose. The donors still have a say and as far as I can tell, not all of them are happy with it changing to support aids but they accepted this after talking to them. Now to put me in a position to release the money to you without any proof, how should I answer to the donors especially after no good reason was given at the time? You have to realize that the donors still have a say in it and I being a donor as well have a say in it. If it was really yours, it would have been a lot easier to just remit the money direct to you from the beginning rather than letting me hold it as trustee.

Regardless whether I release the money to you now, or later upon production of an invoice or whatever, you still would have to travel to shop to evaluate these medical supplies. This fact does not change and the journey cannot be avoided. The only difference here is that you cannot get it there and then but even then, this does not preclude me releasing it to you in bits even without production of an invoice as long as you call me up and tell me and produce the receipt in a day.

Please don't go on about irrelevant things. The only relevant point you brought up is the transportation of the goods to your home which is NOT a big problem. Big items like mattresses need to be delivered anyway. And surely they have bank accounts I can bank in to without actually handing the cash to you directly. Any company that doesn't lol, well I suggest you don't buy it from them. And in any case, even with the small items you would have to try a few shops to begin with and have some time to think on what was best for you?

As I see it, you have not decided exactly what you require and still need to shop around. Till you have decided and come up with a list of things (which you would have to do in any case), it would be simply irresponsible of me to release the whole sum directly to you.

Since you have highlighted the transportation problem, I do not mind releasing say RM400 of it to cover for any downpayment or whatever from the people who do not mind releasing their money straight away (only taking it from their portion). Considering the amount is only 2155, I think RM400 should be sufficient for any downpayments you would need to make. I know you say you are not well off but surely you have some money for groceries and what not? Your computer purchase (even though this was assisted)/seedbox purchase shows that although your situation is dire, it is not in abject poverty that you cannot afford to come up with say another RM100 for less than a day upon which it will go directly back into your account. And it's not as if you would have to starve for or day or anything like that. Just send me the quotation/invoice and bam, the money is in your bank account.

The whole process is simple and there is no significant hurdle to you getting the money. You insisting there is one and focusing on your plight just reinforces my position in taking a cautious approach. This is not legal brouhaha or big talk about responsibility or morals. It's simple common sense and prudence where other people's money is concerned.

What is being weighed is

Convenience of being able to buy small items straight away and carry it home VS ensuring all the money used can be accounted for

You should not feel offended by this or treat this as an insult to the donors' trust in you if there is really nothing to be hidden.

I am acting as any charity would do and probably a whole lot more lenient. Saying that all of us are friends (which not everyone here knows you) and therefore should ignore this is misusing it. Try telling a charitable organization that do not understand your plight and should therefore release all donations to you without batting an eyelid and see how they react.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 09:28:51 AM by Erun »
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Offline kiddc

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #114 on: March 18, 2008, 09:29:54 AM »
Hi all,

This is my first time posting here. I would like state my feelings on this case.

Since i have donated my amount to RAN to aid her in any way, then i will pay my donation amount. Its up to her to do what she please, I'm just happy to help her in any little way that i can. The money is intended FOR her.

As you all know, she is a disabled person. I certainly wouldnt ask her to go back and forth to the shop, asking her to prove this and that.

For example, you donate to a needy organization. You certainly do not ask for a summary or a report on how your money is spent. Well, maybe some of you do, but charity for me doesnt work that way. Money is pledged so that it may help the intended party in ANY WAY.

just my 2cts.
I say give her the money.

freeman85

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #115 on: March 18, 2008, 09:42:28 AM »
i would follow what kiddc say
although my donation is small compared to others
the money is pledged so that it may help the intended party in ANY WAY

Offline Schadenfreude

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #116 on: March 18, 2008, 09:49:54 AM »
I think that with kiddc, freeman and my portion of the funds okayed for immediate release, it's a good start should RAN need it for downpayment or immediate purchase of any particular items.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 12:28:40 PM by Lord Craptastic! »

Offline Reuben

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #117 on: March 18, 2008, 09:54:14 AM »
There is now RM500 ready for immediate remittance.

Will see how RAN replies to it and upon her confirmation will remit the said amount to her which should be more than sufficient to cover any downpayment costs.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 09:56:15 AM by Erun »
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Silencers

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #118 on: March 18, 2008, 09:55:44 AM »
I had to look at a number of lumbar supports, try on a few, and get advice from the pharmacist before deciding the best one for me. I have to lie on a mattress to see how it performs, sit on a seat cushion to test firmness or thickness, sit against a back support to check if it does what it claims to do, scan my feet and do whatever the shop asks me to, to be able to suggest the best insole. I take it you have not bought any of these items for yourself or present when someone else did.

Please pardon my ignorance. If that's the case, then I think it's okay for Erun to release it.

Offline Reuben

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Re: RAN needs your help RM2125.55 Collected Thus Far
« Reply #119 on: March 18, 2008, 09:56:27 AM »
Ok RM500 has now been pledged ready for immediate remittance to RAN for whatever purposes she desires.

I assume I don't need to get a receipt?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 10:08:08 AM by Erun »
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